Not to turn this into a news conference, but I have a follow-up question about the sales charts question. As you note, "if your data isn’t reliable, then your outcome, your conclusions, can’t be reliable either." So... Why not provide reliable data? If I recall, in the past you've noted that Marvel doesn't have anything to gain by it (maybe I'm misremembering, if so, my apologies!), but one thing the company has to gain is: reliability and trustworthiness. It also helps set the tone for the entire industry. Particularly as it sure looks like Marvel is the market leader right now, wouldn't the company look good if they released numbers? Also maybe I don't know what I'm talking about! But imo transparency is always a good thing.
I think it’s just that the company is in the business of selling comic books, and nobody ever bought a comic book because the company that published it was honest and forthright about their sales figures.
Most of the people who quibble, b---h, and moan about sales figures and what's a hit and what isn't aren't going to change their conspiracy-laden rants about why book x was cancelled and why book y was not. So there's really no upside to releasing what amounts to proprietary financial information.
I do think there is some PR value in releasing sales figures (this book is popular so let me check it out) - or at least a top sellers list - Marvel Age used to list the top 10 selling Marvel books of the month every issue (no numbers - just rankings). I can see some value in that.
As a reader, I'm curious about sales numbers. But I don't see how publishing the numbers is good for Marvel's business. The-powers-that-be can do their jobs easier if the numbers aren't published. Publishing the numbers only helps YouTube conspiracy theorists and gossip sites create rage for engagement.
In honor of the final episode of The Deathlok Chronicles, I'm auctioning off a complete run of Deathlok comics, with the profits going to the Hero Initiative. (https://www.ebay.com/itm/356211420524) Find out what Tom and Gregory Wright have been talking about for the last year!
You have mentioned how you view Ultron and Kang as the main Avengers villains - do you see Graviton as being potentially a third major one as well if properly handled?
He has the power, was there when the west coast team formed, and Kurt Busiek gave him some cool characterization as a [powerfull man who needed purpose in life.
Do you think he is a contender or not?
Bonus question (as Kurt Busiek does pop up here): when you stranded Graviton in another dimension in Thunderbolts - who was that alien/mysterious figure he met in the void?
I don't 100% remember the details of what you're referencing, JV, but if my foggy memories serve, I wanted to give Graviton a counselor, someone who would supply him with the ideas and motivation to use his powers more constructively, building him up as a villain by supplying what he lacked.
And again, I'm not sure, but I think the idea that this counselor/vizier would ultimately betray him, because let's face it, the guy with the ideas and ambition is the boss, even if the guy with the power thinks he is. But by then Graviton would have seen enough to start thinking more productively himself.
I thought Graviton looked good and had great powers, but his low-level motivations (he just wanted a woman to like him) were more suited to a much lower-level bad guy. So I wanted to slowly move him down a path of learning what he could be. Didn't want to do it all at once, because if you do, you're done. Taking time meant that every time you bring the guy back, you get to explore the idea a little more, from a different angle.
To answer your initial question -- Tom may have other ideas, of course -- I don't think Graviton's a likely top Avengers villain simply because of that motivation problem. He's got the power, but he's got no vision. Hard to blame Jim Shooter for not setting him up better -- those two issues he debuted in were an emergency story plotted in a hurry and drawn by one of Marvel's fastest workhorses, to buy some time on a very, very late schedule (AVENGERS had been in serious schedule trouble for a couple of years, I think, and it was going to stay in schedule trouble for a while, resulting in some interesting editorial gambits to fill gaps). Jim didn't have any reason to think of Graviton as more than a throwaway, because there wasn't time to build him better. They needed to get Sal a plot right away, so get it done and don't worry about the long term.
That makes him a character with an interesting flaw, but it's a flaw that makes it hard for him to be a major villain. Memorable, yes, but memorable for being kind of a loser with way too much power.
Agree that the Marvel/DC crossovers were trailing off by the end, but were there any you would've liked to have seen or done that weren't? Including ones that probably wouldn't have been thought of as commercially viable, like a Dr. Strange/Zatanna or the Pyms/Atom? To me, the big one would've been Roy Thomas doing an Invaders/JSA set during WWII.
I'd have liked to see ALL-STAR SQUADRON/INVADERS too, hopefully drawn by Jerry Ordway.
I'd have liked to have written a BATMAN/IRON MAN crossover, but the one I'd love to have done but wouldn't have sold worth a damn would be a GIANT-MAN & WASP/ELONGATED MAN (and Sue) crossover set in the early days, to explore the ways those two couples are both based on Nick & Nora Charles. Though the genius reversal of the Elongated Man setup was that Ralph is the Nora in that couple.
Come to think of it, OMAC/DEATHLOK would've been fun, too.
Tom, Ryan North's FF run has been my favourite run since...well, probably since Byrne. Every single issue has as many ideas as other writer's entire runs have had. Do you ever think maybe he should slow down? You could get entire 5-6 issue arcs out of each issue. Have to say - I don't want this to happen but I'm shocked at how much he throws into each issue. Other writers are getting away with murder in comparison. Is part of North's appeal the fact that he can scattergun these ideas and wrap them all up so quickly?
This may be YOUR last entry, but I have a few more, lol. I did a miniseries which was supposed to be only Deathlok and Spider-Man...but editorial interference forced OTHER characters into a story where they didn't belong. I also utilized Deathlok in all the other books I was writing...kind of fun to argue with a DIFFERENT editor about what a character you co-created and are currently writing would or wouldn't do...sigh. And Dwayne would utilize Michael/Deathlok in BEYOND and the Fantastic Four. Interestingly, when Agents of SHIELD was utilizing yet another version of Deathlok, I was in contact with the actor, J. August Richards, who portrayed this "new" version. Oh, it was based on OUR version without bothering to give us credit or money, by cleverly making him a NEW character. J. confirmed this for me and had read all the issues we did. He based his performance off of his perception of what we were going for. Very cool.
As usual this issue wound up running late and we had to have Antony Williams help out with the pencils and there's a lot of "color knockouts"...but I fell like we ended pretty strong. Replaying the plans we did have really stings though...that would have been a lot of fun. As I re-read these issues it strikes me how similar the story is to what was going on with the TVA in LOKI...hmmmm.
I really don't agree that the bedrock mistake was splitting the book between two writers. That was a soluble issue, but Dwayne and I weren't "working together" as we should have with our story arcs..we depended on you and Bon to resolve anything that was "off" with our issues that made them not as in sync as they could have been. We should have provided an out line of the first couple years with specific overall story points being agreed upon and handled by each of us. Instead, Dwayne introduces things like Deathlok moving home and flying in planes, which was not something we'd agreed upon, I wind up changing my first storyline from the Siege story to a Punisher and Ghost Rider crossover and for some reason we starting writing Deathlok'sdialogie differently, and nobody stopped us. All solvable problems. We just didnl't solve them. I agree 100% about us going with far too green artist as the moment it all went awry. I wish we maybe could have discussed the schedule with Denys and kept him...but it was that strange time when everyone was discovering new talent and the new talent was selling books and that's what we had hoped. When I reread the series I have really great memories of working with Dwayne, Butch, Scott, Denys, Mike, Kevin, Greg and you, Bob and your assistants Sarra, Mindy and Glenn. I do want today thank you to you specifically. It was a rough journey and I will always be grateful to have made it with you. You never once tried to make us do the book YOUR way, you always tried to hero us make the best version of what we wanted to do and that, for me is the mark of a great editor.
My pleasure. You would think with everything that went on there could be some resentment on behalf of those of us who worked on the book, but we al really did pull together to try to put the best comic we could out there every month. And the glue that held us together was Tom. I'd like to take credit for Tom, as he was my intern when I was on staff, but he came in pretty fully formed and made his way learning from everyone he encountered.
I’m trying to think of the Marvel equipment of the Batcave, in respect to naming a home office. And I’m as lost as you. The closest I can think of is “Sanctum Santorum”, and that’s not as cool as “Batcave”. Most other locations in Marvel are buildings, not personal rooms or hideouts. The Baxter Building, Four Freedoms Plaza, Stark Tower, Avengers Mansion, Xavier’s School, Gamma Base…Maybe the readers of the newsletter have ideas?
Also, Zeb Wells wrapped up his run on Amazing this week. Have you ever worked with Zeb Wells? Any stories?
If you're looking for more things to write about similar to Deathlok (which has been awesome), maybe the return of the Marvel Heroes post Heroes Reborn and how you ended up pulling the teams together and what went well or lessons learned; the planning and execution of one of the major events (Civil War?), putting together some of those first Marvel trading card sets, or as somebody else suggested your time writing Fantastic Force or Secret Defenders.
Hi thanks for answering my question! I have another one, this one is another just for fun hypothetical. Let’s say for some reason the powers that be have decided that Scott Summers needs a new romantic partner neither Emma Frost OR Jean Grey. You’re the guy who needs to pick who it is and have a writer write it into cannon. Who, out of all the possible marvel characters that exist for Scott Summers to be romantically involved with, are you picking? OR would you introduce a brand new character?
We all know Scott has a soulmate who he’s meant to be with and will always end up with. But you know, just for fun, who else would be an interesting and engaging partner for him?
Earth’s Mightiest Heroes by Casey & Kolins is truly a great evergreen Avengers story—I love it so much. Scott is underrated as a Marvel artist around that period—Blood Oath with Mike Oeming was also tremendous.
Anyways, I remember being underwhelmed by EMH II, but I would have loved to see a third installment as the next phase of Avengers history covered is an interesting one. Maybe someday!
During Marvel's All-New, All-Different phase, significant online backlash emerged, often tinged with conservatism and prejudice. Many criticized titles like Sam Wilson: Captain America, The Mighty Thor, Ms. Marvel, and All-New Wolverine without giving them a chance, transcending the comic book community. Notably, Hydra's Captain America and a contentious retailer meeting fueled comments like 'Marvel is going bankrupt,' with some individuals even burning comics. Although these reactions were greatly exaggerated, given Marvel's continued market lead, the tension was palpable.
My question is: How did the editorial team internally navigate these challenges? Was Nick Spencer's Captain America run and the Secret Empire saga shortened or expedited due to the backlash? Was Generations always planned as a one-shot tied to Secret Empire's conclusion? Did Marvel Legacy serve as an emergency strategy to give creative teams time to wrap up stories before Fresh Start?
Now, nearly a decade later, I'd love to hear how the editorial team addressed these controversies and online reactions with the benefit of hindsight.
Man I love the premise of Secret Empire. I wish they had had the time to really dig into Stevil's character, I found him fascinating. I loved the idea of a Steve Rogers who was fully committed to fascism and, as he said "Loyal to nothing but the dream."
James Norcross? Oh, yeah- Super President!
Not to turn this into a news conference, but I have a follow-up question about the sales charts question. As you note, "if your data isn’t reliable, then your outcome, your conclusions, can’t be reliable either." So... Why not provide reliable data? If I recall, in the past you've noted that Marvel doesn't have anything to gain by it (maybe I'm misremembering, if so, my apologies!), but one thing the company has to gain is: reliability and trustworthiness. It also helps set the tone for the entire industry. Particularly as it sure looks like Marvel is the market leader right now, wouldn't the company look good if they released numbers? Also maybe I don't know what I'm talking about! But imo transparency is always a good thing.
Agree that it feels weird that we don't have real numbers. Maybe now it would reveal that we are all sat on a house of cards.
I think it’s just that the company is in the business of selling comic books, and nobody ever bought a comic book because the company that published it was honest and forthright about their sales figures.
Most of the people who quibble, b---h, and moan about sales figures and what's a hit and what isn't aren't going to change their conspiracy-laden rants about why book x was cancelled and why book y was not. So there's really no upside to releasing what amounts to proprietary financial information.
I do think there is some PR value in releasing sales figures (this book is popular so let me check it out) - or at least a top sellers list - Marvel Age used to list the top 10 selling Marvel books of the month every issue (no numbers - just rankings). I can see some value in that.
As a reader, I'm curious about sales numbers. But I don't see how publishing the numbers is good for Marvel's business. The-powers-that-be can do their jobs easier if the numbers aren't published. Publishing the numbers only helps YouTube conspiracy theorists and gossip sites create rage for engagement.
In honor of the final episode of The Deathlok Chronicles, I'm auctioning off a complete run of Deathlok comics, with the profits going to the Hero Initiative. (https://www.ebay.com/itm/356211420524) Find out what Tom and Gregory Wright have been talking about for the last year!
You have mentioned how you view Ultron and Kang as the main Avengers villains - do you see Graviton as being potentially a third major one as well if properly handled?
He has the power, was there when the west coast team formed, and Kurt Busiek gave him some cool characterization as a [powerfull man who needed purpose in life.
Do you think he is a contender or not?
Bonus question (as Kurt Busiek does pop up here): when you stranded Graviton in another dimension in Thunderbolts - who was that alien/mysterious figure he met in the void?
I don't 100% remember the details of what you're referencing, JV, but if my foggy memories serve, I wanted to give Graviton a counselor, someone who would supply him with the ideas and motivation to use his powers more constructively, building him up as a villain by supplying what he lacked.
And again, I'm not sure, but I think the idea that this counselor/vizier would ultimately betray him, because let's face it, the guy with the ideas and ambition is the boss, even if the guy with the power thinks he is. But by then Graviton would have seen enough to start thinking more productively himself.
I thought Graviton looked good and had great powers, but his low-level motivations (he just wanted a woman to like him) were more suited to a much lower-level bad guy. So I wanted to slowly move him down a path of learning what he could be. Didn't want to do it all at once, because if you do, you're done. Taking time meant that every time you bring the guy back, you get to explore the idea a little more, from a different angle.
To answer your initial question -- Tom may have other ideas, of course -- I don't think Graviton's a likely top Avengers villain simply because of that motivation problem. He's got the power, but he's got no vision. Hard to blame Jim Shooter for not setting him up better -- those two issues he debuted in were an emergency story plotted in a hurry and drawn by one of Marvel's fastest workhorses, to buy some time on a very, very late schedule (AVENGERS had been in serious schedule trouble for a couple of years, I think, and it was going to stay in schedule trouble for a while, resulting in some interesting editorial gambits to fill gaps). Jim didn't have any reason to think of Graviton as more than a throwaway, because there wasn't time to build him better. They needed to get Sal a plot right away, so get it done and don't worry about the long term.
That makes him a character with an interesting flaw, but it's a flaw that makes it hard for him to be a major villain. Memorable, yes, but memorable for being kind of a loser with way too much power.
He just wanted a woman to like him?!! LOL
Pretty much. He also used his powers to drop wrenches on the heads of people who had belittled him.
Big, big power. Small-time mind.
please don’t tell me that’s not Orson Welles introducing Super President
That is the voice of Paul Frees, a legendary radio and voiceover actor. In 1949 he was in THE GREEN LAMA radio show, which is a lot of fun.
("Om mani padme hum. The Green Lama strikes...for justice!"
THANKS!
Agree that the Marvel/DC crossovers were trailing off by the end, but were there any you would've liked to have seen or done that weren't? Including ones that probably wouldn't have been thought of as commercially viable, like a Dr. Strange/Zatanna or the Pyms/Atom? To me, the big one would've been Roy Thomas doing an Invaders/JSA set during WWII.
I'd have liked to see ALL-STAR SQUADRON/INVADERS too, hopefully drawn by Jerry Ordway.
I'd have liked to have written a BATMAN/IRON MAN crossover, but the one I'd love to have done but wouldn't have sold worth a damn would be a GIANT-MAN & WASP/ELONGATED MAN (and Sue) crossover set in the early days, to explore the ways those two couples are both based on Nick & Nora Charles. Though the genius reversal of the Elongated Man setup was that Ralph is the Nora in that couple.
Come to think of it, OMAC/DEATHLOK would've been fun, too.
That Denny O'Neil letter, the stationary and Jack's art - WOW! Never tire of seeing stuff like that. Gorgeous!
Tom, Ryan North's FF run has been my favourite run since...well, probably since Byrne. Every single issue has as many ideas as other writer's entire runs have had. Do you ever think maybe he should slow down? You could get entire 5-6 issue arcs out of each issue. Have to say - I don't want this to happen but I'm shocked at how much he throws into each issue. Other writers are getting away with murder in comparison. Is part of North's appeal the fact that he can scattergun these ideas and wrap them all up so quickly?
This may be YOUR last entry, but I have a few more, lol. I did a miniseries which was supposed to be only Deathlok and Spider-Man...but editorial interference forced OTHER characters into a story where they didn't belong. I also utilized Deathlok in all the other books I was writing...kind of fun to argue with a DIFFERENT editor about what a character you co-created and are currently writing would or wouldn't do...sigh. And Dwayne would utilize Michael/Deathlok in BEYOND and the Fantastic Four. Interestingly, when Agents of SHIELD was utilizing yet another version of Deathlok, I was in contact with the actor, J. August Richards, who portrayed this "new" version. Oh, it was based on OUR version without bothering to give us credit or money, by cleverly making him a NEW character. J. confirmed this for me and had read all the issues we did. He based his performance off of his perception of what we were going for. Very cool.
As usual this issue wound up running late and we had to have Antony Williams help out with the pencils and there's a lot of "color knockouts"...but I fell like we ended pretty strong. Replaying the plans we did have really stings though...that would have been a lot of fun. As I re-read these issues it strikes me how similar the story is to what was going on with the TVA in LOKI...hmmmm.
I really don't agree that the bedrock mistake was splitting the book between two writers. That was a soluble issue, but Dwayne and I weren't "working together" as we should have with our story arcs..we depended on you and Bon to resolve anything that was "off" with our issues that made them not as in sync as they could have been. We should have provided an out line of the first couple years with specific overall story points being agreed upon and handled by each of us. Instead, Dwayne introduces things like Deathlok moving home and flying in planes, which was not something we'd agreed upon, I wind up changing my first storyline from the Siege story to a Punisher and Ghost Rider crossover and for some reason we starting writing Deathlok'sdialogie differently, and nobody stopped us. All solvable problems. We just didnl't solve them. I agree 100% about us going with far too green artist as the moment it all went awry. I wish we maybe could have discussed the schedule with Denys and kept him...but it was that strange time when everyone was discovering new talent and the new talent was selling books and that's what we had hoped. When I reread the series I have really great memories of working with Dwayne, Butch, Scott, Denys, Mike, Kevin, Greg and you, Bob and your assistants Sarra, Mindy and Glenn. I do want today thank you to you specifically. It was a rough journey and I will always be grateful to have made it with you. You never once tried to make us do the book YOUR way, you always tried to hero us make the best version of what we wanted to do and that, for me is the mark of a great editor.
Thanks for adding your perspective to the Deathlok Chronicles!
My pleasure. You would think with everything that went on there could be some resentment on behalf of those of us who worked on the book, but we al really did pull together to try to put the best comic we could out there every month. And the glue that held us together was Tom. I'd like to take credit for Tom, as he was my intern when I was on staff, but he came in pretty fully formed and made his way learning from everyone he encountered.
I’m trying to think of the Marvel equipment of the Batcave, in respect to naming a home office. And I’m as lost as you. The closest I can think of is “Sanctum Santorum”, and that’s not as cool as “Batcave”. Most other locations in Marvel are buildings, not personal rooms or hideouts. The Baxter Building, Four Freedoms Plaza, Stark Tower, Avengers Mansion, Xavier’s School, Gamma Base…Maybe the readers of the newsletter have ideas?
Also, Zeb Wells wrapped up his run on Amazing this week. Have you ever worked with Zeb Wells? Any stories?
Personally, I think they should call it "The Hatcave". Since Tom is the Man with the Hat.
If you're looking for more things to write about similar to Deathlok (which has been awesome), maybe the return of the Marvel Heroes post Heroes Reborn and how you ended up pulling the teams together and what went well or lessons learned; the planning and execution of one of the major events (Civil War?), putting together some of those first Marvel trading card sets, or as somebody else suggested your time writing Fantastic Force or Secret Defenders.
I'd love to read more about how/why there was a totally different Fantastic Force team in Marvel Age, and what exactly happened there.
Hi thanks for answering my question! I have another one, this one is another just for fun hypothetical. Let’s say for some reason the powers that be have decided that Scott Summers needs a new romantic partner neither Emma Frost OR Jean Grey. You’re the guy who needs to pick who it is and have a writer write it into cannon. Who, out of all the possible marvel characters that exist for Scott Summers to be romantically involved with, are you picking? OR would you introduce a brand new character?
We all know Scott has a soulmate who he’s meant to be with and will always end up with. But you know, just for fun, who else would be an interesting and engaging partner for him?
Earth’s Mightiest Heroes by Casey & Kolins is truly a great evergreen Avengers story—I love it so much. Scott is underrated as a Marvel artist around that period—Blood Oath with Mike Oeming was also tremendous.
Anyways, I remember being underwhelmed by EMH II, but I would have loved to see a third installment as the next phase of Avengers history covered is an interesting one. Maybe someday!
During Marvel's All-New, All-Different phase, significant online backlash emerged, often tinged with conservatism and prejudice. Many criticized titles like Sam Wilson: Captain America, The Mighty Thor, Ms. Marvel, and All-New Wolverine without giving them a chance, transcending the comic book community. Notably, Hydra's Captain America and a contentious retailer meeting fueled comments like 'Marvel is going bankrupt,' with some individuals even burning comics. Although these reactions were greatly exaggerated, given Marvel's continued market lead, the tension was palpable.
My question is: How did the editorial team internally navigate these challenges? Was Nick Spencer's Captain America run and the Secret Empire saga shortened or expedited due to the backlash? Was Generations always planned as a one-shot tied to Secret Empire's conclusion? Did Marvel Legacy serve as an emergency strategy to give creative teams time to wrap up stories before Fresh Start?
Now, nearly a decade later, I'd love to hear how the editorial team addressed these controversies and online reactions with the benefit of hindsight.
Man I love the premise of Secret Empire. I wish they had had the time to really dig into Stevil's character, I found him fascinating. I loved the idea of a Steve Rogers who was fully committed to fascism and, as he said "Loyal to nothing but the dream."