Among my nearly lifelong obsession with how sausages are made, in this case, comics, I frequently ponder the economics. This has focused on the perennial problem of making a reasonable living in comics (as in earning enough for housing, medical insurance (at least for American creators IYKWIM), and actually saving money for slow periods in the freelancer's life. More recently, it's also been the manifestation of what should be expected: the failure huge number of companies filing for bankruptcy or even going out of business. Oni, Valiant, Aftershock, Heavy Metal... and I presume new management will eventually catch up to DC once the former's dealt with CNN, HBO and Warner/DCU.
In regard to the latter, as I understand it having no inside info: sales of 5,000, 10,000 or even 20k at $4/per. So let's say a book gets a $80,000 gross. Publisher gets around half. Of that $40k or less, there's overhead and a couple of creators and... well, I don't see anyone getting wealthy -- or businesses lasting for the long haul.
So my question, Tom, is what do you think of this:
I should add that since Hibbs' piece covers more than just economics but the issue of high numbers of variants and the effect of cover prices, I'm also curious of your thoughts if, you know, can.
And back to economics, I find it sort of funny that these days, while publishing is what can be called a small margin business, one concept from publishing turned into a zillion dollar grossing movie results in profits a couple magnitudes larger than that of publishing.
Around the time of the "Ultimate V. Traditional" discussions, I was a freelance illustrator who got a gig doing Marvel licensed work for a gaming company. Very exciting! Marvel gave us a document of character art to work from and I was surprised that most of it had the Ultimate versions of the characters. I thought I had a HUGE scoop that the Ultimate line was going to take the place of the main one!
My main memory of that job was that I did a cool drawing of Wolverine leaping, one leg in front, one behind, and the gaming people really didn't understand why one leg was smaller than the other, so they made me bring both legs to the front so it looked like Wolverine was pooping
Chuffed to see Steve W bring up Comet Man after I name checked him in my question. I notice his appearance In Genis Vell Captain Marvel by Peter David (a must buy omni purchase) is about to surface in that format. Ideal time then for him to pop up again then now 😉
With regards to the Marvel multiverse, I always thought branches is a good description, especially if you think of any Kang stories, or those involving The Exiles (and dare I say Ultraverse!).
One Marvel character who I always felt is dumped on with a shared name (and who is a personal favourite) is the Jim Hammond Torch (let’s continually kill him off and revive him). Loved the “New Invaders” concept book from years back with Torch/Tara (where is she?!)/Walker and Namor. Now we have Toro too and also those GA characters kicking around from Thunderbolts, there’s still lots of potential there.
James Robinson had a good stab at a different version of the concept too
Originally, it seemed to me that the Torch situation was playing out like the Flash; with Jim Hammond the Jay Garrick to Johnny Storm's Barry Allen. And while I could appreciate Stan and Jack reviving him just to put him to bed in the pages of the FF, in some ways I feel like Byrne's nostalgia encouraged him to revive Hammond without thinking through "Now what?" (or getting Byrned Out™ before telling those stories).
I fell in love some time ago with the notion of Hammond getting a new moniker, Prometheus. I like that it speaks not only to the gift of fire from the gods; the parallel between Prometheus being the metaphorical birth of humanity and the the Torch's leading appearance in Marvel Comics #1 as the birth of Marvel Comics, and reinforcing the "Frankenstein; or, The Modern Prometheus" connection, as artificial life that was abandoned by his mad scientist "father."
But of course a name alone doesn't capture reader interest. The character, regardless of name, has to be elevated by compelling character traits in a story that captures readers' attention en masse. Personally, I thought that both Scott Snyder (Human Torch 70th Anniversary Special) and Chip Zdarsky (Invaders) nudged the character in that direction by playing up his superficially inhuman nature. I also think that there is something to revisiting the idea of pairing him with Namor specifically that could capture some mismatched partner / frenemy dynamic.
I had never even heard of Comet Man until I was going through all the research for a cover. I put him in there, so I suppose I'll bear some small responsibility if a Comet Man renaissance spontaneously erupts.
Thanks for another great newsletter! Always enjoyable. I remember first encountering Comet Man in the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe, then finding Comet Man #1 at my cousin’s house under a pile of old Archie issues. No idea what happened to it, now I wish I’d just kept it for myself. Lol
I know Spider-Man's been put back in isolation but it's weird to see the character referred to as a guest star when he was an Avenger for a few glorious years.
And as to Ultimate Universe, has anyone ever pitched doing an Ultimate line again with another continuity do over?
Hi Tom, I'm a bit late to the party but am so grateful to find your Substack. I always really appreciated how you made yourself available to inquisitive fans on Formspring and later on Tumblr and am grateful to be able to pick your brain on assorted comic book miscellanea that benefit from an insider's insight. So thanks for doing this, and thanks to all the other people peppering you with questions — its been a consistently fascinating read.
I have a backlog of questions, but I don't want to bogart the forum so I'll dole them out over time.
Q: I am always so gobsmacked to hear stories of John Romita's assessment of his own skill; partially because I grew up with his incarnations of all my favorite Marvels as the Standard (with all due respect to Kirby and Buscema). Do you think he had a touch of imposter syndrome? Is that something you encounter much in your collaboration with a bevy of creative professionals? Moreover, as a collaborator of many creatives, do you have any thoughts on the negative or positive ways it affects their output? As someone who either (a) feels imposter syndrome from time to time, or (b) is actually a legitimate hack; I find it heartening when I hear people I hold in high esteem talk about feelings of doubt in their own ability. Not out of schadenfreude, but because it makes me realize, "Oh…okay."
It used to be commonplace for Spider-man to swing over into a licensed book like Transformers in the 1980s. Has anyone seriously suggested a Marvel/Star Wars crossover? Or Spider-Man/Mickey Mouse, in the style of Superman/Daffy Duck?
Among my nearly lifelong obsession with how sausages are made, in this case, comics, I frequently ponder the economics. This has focused on the perennial problem of making a reasonable living in comics (as in earning enough for housing, medical insurance (at least for American creators IYKWIM), and actually saving money for slow periods in the freelancer's life. More recently, it's also been the manifestation of what should be expected: the failure huge number of companies filing for bankruptcy or even going out of business. Oni, Valiant, Aftershock, Heavy Metal... and I presume new management will eventually catch up to DC once the former's dealt with CNN, HBO and Warner/DCU.
In regard to the latter, as I understand it having no inside info: sales of 5,000, 10,000 or even 20k at $4/per. So let's say a book gets a $80,000 gross. Publisher gets around half. Of that $40k or less, there's overhead and a couple of creators and... well, I don't see anyone getting wealthy -- or businesses lasting for the long haul.
So my question, Tom, is what do you think of this:
https://www.comicsbeat.com/tiilting-at-windmills-293-whats-wrong-with-the-periodical-comics/
https://www.comixexperience.com/news/2023/1/2/comix-experience-best-sellers-2022
I should add that since Hibbs' piece covers more than just economics but the issue of high numbers of variants and the effect of cover prices, I'm also curious of your thoughts if, you know, can.
And back to economics, I find it sort of funny that these days, while publishing is what can be called a small margin business, one concept from publishing turned into a zillion dollar grossing movie results in profits a couple magnitudes larger than that of publishing.
Around the time of the "Ultimate V. Traditional" discussions, I was a freelance illustrator who got a gig doing Marvel licensed work for a gaming company. Very exciting! Marvel gave us a document of character art to work from and I was surprised that most of it had the Ultimate versions of the characters. I thought I had a HUGE scoop that the Ultimate line was going to take the place of the main one!
My main memory of that job was that I did a cool drawing of Wolverine leaping, one leg in front, one behind, and the gaming people really didn't understand why one leg was smaller than the other, so they made me bring both legs to the front so it looked like Wolverine was pooping
Chuffed to see Steve W bring up Comet Man after I name checked him in my question. I notice his appearance In Genis Vell Captain Marvel by Peter David (a must buy omni purchase) is about to surface in that format. Ideal time then for him to pop up again then now 😉
With regards to the Marvel multiverse, I always thought branches is a good description, especially if you think of any Kang stories, or those involving The Exiles (and dare I say Ultraverse!).
One Marvel character who I always felt is dumped on with a shared name (and who is a personal favourite) is the Jim Hammond Torch (let’s continually kill him off and revive him). Loved the “New Invaders” concept book from years back with Torch/Tara (where is she?!)/Walker and Namor. Now we have Toro too and also those GA characters kicking around from Thunderbolts, there’s still lots of potential there.
James Robinson had a good stab at a different version of the concept too
Originally, it seemed to me that the Torch situation was playing out like the Flash; with Jim Hammond the Jay Garrick to Johnny Storm's Barry Allen. And while I could appreciate Stan and Jack reviving him just to put him to bed in the pages of the FF, in some ways I feel like Byrne's nostalgia encouraged him to revive Hammond without thinking through "Now what?" (or getting Byrned Out™ before telling those stories).
I fell in love some time ago with the notion of Hammond getting a new moniker, Prometheus. I like that it speaks not only to the gift of fire from the gods; the parallel between Prometheus being the metaphorical birth of humanity and the the Torch's leading appearance in Marvel Comics #1 as the birth of Marvel Comics, and reinforcing the "Frankenstein; or, The Modern Prometheus" connection, as artificial life that was abandoned by his mad scientist "father."
But of course a name alone doesn't capture reader interest. The character, regardless of name, has to be elevated by compelling character traits in a story that captures readers' attention en masse. Personally, I thought that both Scott Snyder (Human Torch 70th Anniversary Special) and Chip Zdarsky (Invaders) nudged the character in that direction by playing up his superficially inhuman nature. I also think that there is something to revisiting the idea of pairing him with Namor specifically that could capture some mismatched partner / frenemy dynamic.
I had never even heard of Comet Man until I was going through all the research for a cover. I put him in there, so I suppose I'll bear some small responsibility if a Comet Man renaissance spontaneously erupts.
Thanks for another great newsletter! Always enjoyable. I remember first encountering Comet Man in the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe, then finding Comet Man #1 at my cousin’s house under a pile of old Archie issues. No idea what happened to it, now I wish I’d just kept it for myself. Lol
I know Spider-Man's been put back in isolation but it's weird to see the character referred to as a guest star when he was an Avenger for a few glorious years.
And as to Ultimate Universe, has anyone ever pitched doing an Ultimate line again with another continuity do over?
Hi Tom, I'm a bit late to the party but am so grateful to find your Substack. I always really appreciated how you made yourself available to inquisitive fans on Formspring and later on Tumblr and am grateful to be able to pick your brain on assorted comic book miscellanea that benefit from an insider's insight. So thanks for doing this, and thanks to all the other people peppering you with questions — its been a consistently fascinating read.
I have a backlog of questions, but I don't want to bogart the forum so I'll dole them out over time.
Q: I am always so gobsmacked to hear stories of John Romita's assessment of his own skill; partially because I grew up with his incarnations of all my favorite Marvels as the Standard (with all due respect to Kirby and Buscema). Do you think he had a touch of imposter syndrome? Is that something you encounter much in your collaboration with a bevy of creative professionals? Moreover, as a collaborator of many creatives, do you have any thoughts on the negative or positive ways it affects their output? As someone who either (a) feels imposter syndrome from time to time, or (b) is actually a legitimate hack; I find it heartening when I hear people I hold in high esteem talk about feelings of doubt in their own ability. Not out of schadenfreude, but because it makes me realize, "Oh…okay."
PS: Happy birthday, Jazzy John!
Hello Tom,
I have a question about The Punisher.
There have been no Epic volume for the punisher in 2022 and not one announced in 2023.
Is it related with the problem of his symbol being used in real life?
I was hoping that the other séries like PWJ will have the Epic treatment or PWZ (The Romita Jr run hasn't been collected... ??) .
Thank you,
Big Hug from France
It used to be commonplace for Spider-man to swing over into a licensed book like Transformers in the 1980s. Has anyone seriously suggested a Marvel/Star Wars crossover? Or Spider-Man/Mickey Mouse, in the style of Superman/Daffy Duck?