Any thoughts on why Marvel hadn't developed any Black writers worth a shot on Mighty Avengers by 2014? It seems dissonant that Ewing (who was absolutely a great find) was given a shot on his first Marvel book but there wasn't a newer Black writer who wasn't up to snuff. Curious how the talent development process has changed since then.
I have to know about this “vampires aren’t real” Blade pitch. I assume it was about the police hunting Blade down for the crime of murdering hundreds of innocent goths.
In reply to RAY CORNWALL: There's a simple reason I never had an extended run writing the FANTASTIC FOUR:
TIMING.
So much of this industry is based on being the right person in the right place at the right time, and for me and the FF that never worked out. When my star was on the rise, there was no room for me— or there were bigger, brighter stars in line ahead of me. Believe me, it was very hard hearing Mark Waid was going to write FF because I really thought I was auditioning— and auditioning well— to get that gig. (To his credit, I heard the news straight from Mark himself, to my face, as gentle as possible since he knew what it meant to me; Mark's a total class act and great friend.) But I'll be the first to admit Mark is a FAR better writer than I am, and as a fan of the FF comic, I honestly couldn't have been happier. And some AMAZING comics came out of that run, as I'm sure you'd agree.
Since then, I simply haven't stayed in the spotlight enough to warrant consideration. I don't naturally lean towards Big Event storylines or even major characters— I'm much more attracted to quirky characters and concepts. I don't pitch WOLVERINE stories, I pitch a CAPTAIN AMERICA Newspaper Strip, or a mini about the THIRD Captain America! These are comics I am VERY proud of, but not the sort of thing people line up to read, and certainly not stepping stones to being given a Top Tier comic like FF (Or at least, like the FF SHOULD be.)
I have long felt I'm the comics industry's Kurt Russell— solid, dependable, always entertaining; someone who delivers the goods. But never gonna win any awards. And usually gonna lose the Han Solo roles to the Harrison Fords of the world.
I also think a lot about the singer Warren Zevon who, when asked more-or-less how he felt about being a failed rock and roll singer said something like "I'm not a failed rock and roll singer. I'm an extremely successful folk singer." Given my natural interests and tendencies, I was damn lucky to be on the main stage for as long as I was.
Besides: it's not like I'm flipping burgers now. I'm working on a creator-owned comic I love— IMPOSSIBLE JONES, with David Hahn. It's not as financially rewarding as doing a Marvel or DC book, but it is by far the most satisfying comic I've ever worked on.
Loved your Superboy run with Tom Grummett (both of 'em!), and really haven't enjoyed the character by anyone else. Would have loved to see an FF run by the two of you.
Mr. Kesel, I LOVED — not liked — LOVED Captain America: Patriot!!! And having the Breitweisers on art was the whipped cream on an immensely satisfying story.
I confess I was ignorant about Impossible Jones but am going to check that out presently. Thanks!
Would love to hear more about the ORIGINAL SIN event - I enjoyed it but felt it a little forgettable as the years go by (unlike most of Jason Aaron's work which I love and reread a lot).
Tom, you're always very humble about your newsletter's quality, but this one was top-notch as always. As a Chinese American comic book reader, I especially appreciate your candid thoughts with regard to representation in comic books (and media writ large) -- it's really interesting hearing from the inside on how these decisions are made.
I appreciated Ewing's run quite a lot at the time! That Ewing was on it reminds me of Gene Luen Yang's talk on how it's not just OK, but totally great at times for creators not of a particular culture to write characters from that culture. I'm sure Tom's seen it but for anyone who hasn't, here it is, starting at 20:07: https://youtu.be/tNuxQgN__vE?t=1207
Talk of your feelings in regards to the Flash movie made me think on how do we separate the signer from the song so to speak in regards to comics. Does knowing certain creators personally (or online) detract from their work?
As a fan in the digital age I have seen some creators (old faves - one from the 80s in particular) act toxic and erratic online and it has taken me out of their work and lessened its enjoyment.
Not a hard rule of course - it takes some pretty extreme behaviour to turn me off from a good comic but it has happened - does this affect you Tom? in comics and wider pop culture as well?
I have to say The Immortal Hulk became a very contentious read for me. It was easily the most interesting series the character had for quite a while, written by a writer I have immense respect for. And as much as I truly loved the artwork, I couldn't unsee a scene with ugly Jewish stereotypes the artist chose (and slipped past the editors). And while he apologized, seeing political cartoons he drew elsewhere supporting an authoritarian leader chasing away ethnic stereotypes cast the sincerity of that apology in doubt.
The Immortal Hulk shines a light on things to consider when trying to be a conscientious consumer. When I pass on supporting work due to the conduct of a single contributor, that also affects every other blameless contributor to that work. And not for nothing, none of us are perfect and we are all more than the worst thing we've ever done. For me, it comes down to how individuals conduct themselves in the aftermath.
I'm happy (and eager) to accept any public figure who makes a SINCERE apology and demonstrates that they understand WHY the conduct was objectionable. I'm thankful that Peter David was transparently regretful and contrite after his remarks about Roma people. I thought Warren Ellis and SMOU was going to be an excellent example about transformative justice, but that effort seems to have stalled, as far as I know.
Tom, I would encourage you to see Flash. Like you, he's my favorite DC character & I've waited approximately as long to catch him on the big screen.
Keeping spoilers to an absolute minimum, I'll say that I have NOT been a fan of Ezra Miller's portrayal of Barry Allen, but here, it's almost like the filmmakers — to use a Marvel analogy — split Bruce Banner from the Hulk & gave the actor "a way out" so to speak. I can't say more than that.
This isn't perfect by any means, but damn that nostalgia hit is a sweet ride while it lasts.
I've heard writers say something like "I had a Captain America story I always wanted to do, but then I got a job writing Flash, so it became a Flash story." As an editor, can you tell when one of these stories is pitched? (I'm thinking of Punisher: POV, which was originally going to be a Batman story, and feels way more like a Batman story than a Punisher story.)
JM Dematteis has a great story on his blog about the long road to Kraven's Last Hunt which had multiple iterations involving many heroes (including Wonder Man!) before it was approved and written as the classic story involving Spidey and Kraven.
The discussion of Mighty Avengers and Dwayne McDuffie reminds me of his famous "Rule of 3" i.e. if you do a story with 3 or more Black characters it becomes a "Black product." Pretty much what happened during his brief run on the Justice League comic when certain readers accused Dwayne of turning the JL book "Black."
Related partially but not exclusively to the kerfuffle leading to the recent Reddit protest, I've been casting around for alternate online forums to talk comics. Specifically, I'm seeking destinations where people try to be thoughtful and civil and respectful, even when they're unhappy about something. Something akin to the conduct the small peanut gallery that lines up week after week to pepper you with questions.
Do you (or any other regulars here) know of such a place?
Or is this a fool's errand? Am I the only precious snowflake that even wants such a thing?
The Amazing Spider-Talk slack, while predominantly about Spider-Man, contains a lot of other comic chat and there's a lovely mix of opinions. Even when people don't like a run, it's never "this comic creator is a terrible person", it's about the work
Thank you for sharing the guide for new writers. It was a super fascinating read. I have a couple of questions based off the back of it:
1) It says to ask your editor how they would like receive pitches and outlines formatted. If someone asked you that question, what do you say to writers you are editing?
2) It was interesting (and disheartening) to see a line about social media abuse in the doc. It's something that actively puts people off from having online conversations about comics. Do you know what kind of advice is given if a writer/artist is facing online backlash?
Any thoughts on why Marvel hadn't developed any Black writers worth a shot on Mighty Avengers by 2014? It seems dissonant that Ewing (who was absolutely a great find) was given a shot on his first Marvel book but there wasn't a newer Black writer who wasn't up to snuff. Curious how the talent development process has changed since then.
I have to know about this “vampires aren’t real” Blade pitch. I assume it was about the police hunting Blade down for the crime of murdering hundreds of innocent goths.
Seconded! This needs to be next week's lead story. ;)
In reply to RAY CORNWALL: There's a simple reason I never had an extended run writing the FANTASTIC FOUR:
TIMING.
So much of this industry is based on being the right person in the right place at the right time, and for me and the FF that never worked out. When my star was on the rise, there was no room for me— or there were bigger, brighter stars in line ahead of me. Believe me, it was very hard hearing Mark Waid was going to write FF because I really thought I was auditioning— and auditioning well— to get that gig. (To his credit, I heard the news straight from Mark himself, to my face, as gentle as possible since he knew what it meant to me; Mark's a total class act and great friend.) But I'll be the first to admit Mark is a FAR better writer than I am, and as a fan of the FF comic, I honestly couldn't have been happier. And some AMAZING comics came out of that run, as I'm sure you'd agree.
Since then, I simply haven't stayed in the spotlight enough to warrant consideration. I don't naturally lean towards Big Event storylines or even major characters— I'm much more attracted to quirky characters and concepts. I don't pitch WOLVERINE stories, I pitch a CAPTAIN AMERICA Newspaper Strip, or a mini about the THIRD Captain America! These are comics I am VERY proud of, but not the sort of thing people line up to read, and certainly not stepping stones to being given a Top Tier comic like FF (Or at least, like the FF SHOULD be.)
I have long felt I'm the comics industry's Kurt Russell— solid, dependable, always entertaining; someone who delivers the goods. But never gonna win any awards. And usually gonna lose the Han Solo roles to the Harrison Fords of the world.
I also think a lot about the singer Warren Zevon who, when asked more-or-less how he felt about being a failed rock and roll singer said something like "I'm not a failed rock and roll singer. I'm an extremely successful folk singer." Given my natural interests and tendencies, I was damn lucky to be on the main stage for as long as I was.
Besides: it's not like I'm flipping burgers now. I'm working on a creator-owned comic I love— IMPOSSIBLE JONES, with David Hahn. It's not as financially rewarding as doing a Marvel or DC book, but it is by far the most satisfying comic I've ever worked on.
Great post Karl! Your Hawk & Dove series will always be a fave of mine!
Loved your Superboy run with Tom Grummett (both of 'em!), and really haven't enjoyed the character by anyone else. Would have loved to see an FF run by the two of you.
Mr. Kesel, I LOVED — not liked — LOVED Captain America: Patriot!!! And having the Breitweisers on art was the whipped cream on an immensely satisfying story.
I confess I was ignorant about Impossible Jones but am going to check that out presently. Thanks!
Would love to hear more about the ORIGINAL SIN event - I enjoyed it but felt it a little forgettable as the years go by (unlike most of Jason Aaron's work which I love and reread a lot).
Tom, you're always very humble about your newsletter's quality, but this one was top-notch as always. As a Chinese American comic book reader, I especially appreciate your candid thoughts with regard to representation in comic books (and media writ large) -- it's really interesting hearing from the inside on how these decisions are made.
I appreciated Ewing's run quite a lot at the time! That Ewing was on it reminds me of Gene Luen Yang's talk on how it's not just OK, but totally great at times for creators not of a particular culture to write characters from that culture. I'm sure Tom's seen it but for anyone who hasn't, here it is, starting at 20:07: https://youtu.be/tNuxQgN__vE?t=1207
Talk of your feelings in regards to the Flash movie made me think on how do we separate the signer from the song so to speak in regards to comics. Does knowing certain creators personally (or online) detract from their work?
As a fan in the digital age I have seen some creators (old faves - one from the 80s in particular) act toxic and erratic online and it has taken me out of their work and lessened its enjoyment.
Not a hard rule of course - it takes some pretty extreme behaviour to turn me off from a good comic but it has happened - does this affect you Tom? in comics and wider pop culture as well?
I have to say The Immortal Hulk became a very contentious read for me. It was easily the most interesting series the character had for quite a while, written by a writer I have immense respect for. And as much as I truly loved the artwork, I couldn't unsee a scene with ugly Jewish stereotypes the artist chose (and slipped past the editors). And while he apologized, seeing political cartoons he drew elsewhere supporting an authoritarian leader chasing away ethnic stereotypes cast the sincerity of that apology in doubt.
The Immortal Hulk shines a light on things to consider when trying to be a conscientious consumer. When I pass on supporting work due to the conduct of a single contributor, that also affects every other blameless contributor to that work. And not for nothing, none of us are perfect and we are all more than the worst thing we've ever done. For me, it comes down to how individuals conduct themselves in the aftermath.
I'm happy (and eager) to accept any public figure who makes a SINCERE apology and demonstrates that they understand WHY the conduct was objectionable. I'm thankful that Peter David was transparently regretful and contrite after his remarks about Roma people. I thought Warren Ellis and SMOU was going to be an excellent example about transformative justice, but that effort seems to have stalled, as far as I know.
Well said - it is a tricky issue - and I am not consistent in my own opinions on art vs artist - it changes on a situation per situation basis.
Just saw this article and thought of you. https://www.vox.com/the-gray-area/23768672/claire-dederer-interview-monsters-a-fans-dilemma-me-too
Tom, I would encourage you to see Flash. Like you, he's my favorite DC character & I've waited approximately as long to catch him on the big screen.
Keeping spoilers to an absolute minimum, I'll say that I have NOT been a fan of Ezra Miller's portrayal of Barry Allen, but here, it's almost like the filmmakers — to use a Marvel analogy — split Bruce Banner from the Hulk & gave the actor "a way out" so to speak. I can't say more than that.
This isn't perfect by any means, but damn that nostalgia hit is a sweet ride while it lasts.
I've heard writers say something like "I had a Captain America story I always wanted to do, but then I got a job writing Flash, so it became a Flash story." As an editor, can you tell when one of these stories is pitched? (I'm thinking of Punisher: POV, which was originally going to be a Batman story, and feels way more like a Batman story than a Punisher story.)
JM Dematteis has a great story on his blog about the long road to Kraven's Last Hunt which had multiple iterations involving many heroes (including Wonder Man!) before it was approved and written as the classic story involving Spidey and Kraven.
Yes! It was a Batman story at one point as well — and eventually became one again in the form of the book Batman: Going Sane.
The discussion of Mighty Avengers and Dwayne McDuffie reminds me of his famous "Rule of 3" i.e. if you do a story with 3 or more Black characters it becomes a "Black product." Pretty much what happened during his brief run on the Justice League comic when certain readers accused Dwayne of turning the JL book "Black."
Related partially but not exclusively to the kerfuffle leading to the recent Reddit protest, I've been casting around for alternate online forums to talk comics. Specifically, I'm seeking destinations where people try to be thoughtful and civil and respectful, even when they're unhappy about something. Something akin to the conduct the small peanut gallery that lines up week after week to pepper you with questions.
Do you (or any other regulars here) know of such a place?
Or is this a fool's errand? Am I the only precious snowflake that even wants such a thing?
The Amazing Spider-Talk slack, while predominantly about Spider-Man, contains a lot of other comic chat and there's a lovely mix of opinions. Even when people don't like a run, it's never "this comic creator is a terrible person", it's about the work
Thank you for sharing the guide for new writers. It was a super fascinating read. I have a couple of questions based off the back of it:
1) It says to ask your editor how they would like receive pitches and outlines formatted. If someone asked you that question, what do you say to writers you are editing?
2) It was interesting (and disheartening) to see a line about social media abuse in the doc. It's something that actively puts people off from having online conversations about comics. Do you know what kind of advice is given if a writer/artist is facing online backlash?
Thanks, as always!
thank you tom. sincerely.