Went down the rabbit hole a little bit this past week in looking back at some of the earliest expressions of the Marvel characters in other media. The oldest of these was the syndicated series THE MARVEL SUPER HEROES which debuted in September of 1966, and featured segments devoted to the Hulk, Captain America, Iron Man, the Sub-Mariner and Thor. Even at the time, this was the second-stringer squad, Marvel’s two best-selling properties, Fantastic Four and Spider-Man having been held back to eventually feature in shows of their own (though Spider-Man was initially intended to be a part of
Were the 1966 Marvel Super Hero trading cards based on the show? I always thought they were, but I dug up my old set and see that among the characters in the cards are Spider-Man and Daredevil
As always, Tom, thanks for these. Your unflinching honesty in recalling your experiences with Deathlok are especially appreciated -- and, I think, helpful to anyone who's ever been young, stupid, and inexperienced in a creative job.
Speaking of old editorial experiences. Here's one I maybe ought to have asked you in an interview, but the topic never came up, so here it is. There has been an oft-repeated story (from John Byrne, Glen Greenberg, and others) that during the mid-90's, Steve Ditko had been in talks to make his dramatic, long-awaited return to Spider-Man for a project of some sort, only to drop the discussions after seeing Untold Tales of Spider-Man already in progress.
The story is eyebrow-raising on its face, if only because of Ditko's frequent and consistent refusals to work on his co-creation post-1966, even during periods when he had an active working relationship with Marvel. And even from the distance of time, I'm not sure how much you yourself are free to comment on it. But if I can ask your own recollections of the events, can you describe what happened here, and what you were actually aware of at the time?
What is the rarest commercially available single issue of a Marvel comic book from the time you've been working there? Note that I don't mean the most desirable or valuable one (and, for the purposes of this question, let's also disqualify variant covers, reprints, giveaways, withdrawn errors, etc.), just the one of which there are literally the fewest copies in circulation.
(I have a couple of theories about what it might be, but I figure the real answer will surprise me whatever it is!)
I don't buy a lot of comics these days, but I do try to stay up on the news in case I hear about anything that's worth purchasing. Consequently, I might be a little late to a new series that's getting good reviews, but I don't mind catching up if I know it's going to be a quality experience. I'm especially drawn to miniseries since I know I'll get a story with a beginning-middle-end by (usually) the same creators the entire time.
Avengers, Inc. seems like something I might have picked up, but by the time I a) knew it existed and b) heard that it was good, it had already been cancelled with issue #3 on the stands. That seems quick even by 2024 standards, so sales must have been terrible right out of the gate.
But here's my question: if someone who's been hooked into comics culture for decades can't hop on a quality new series in time, then how is it supposed to grow an audience? Does a series need a built-in audience before it's even published? And wouldn't it have been better to commission and solicit a project like Avengers, Inc. as a miniseries to begin with? If the entire story was going to be done in 10 issues, then the miniseries format seems perfect for it.
Thanks for your newsletter. I appreciate the insider perspective and historical research you provide.
I think the reason superheroes are so seldomly interacting with non-such these days is that, for example at Marvel, the only major characters to have secret identities are all in the Spider- family (Peter, Miles, Cindy). And they all have human supporting casts. And (checks current status) this is the even numbered year when Daredevil has one. : -) And we're in the middle of one of the occasional attempts to ground Captain America as interacting with a supporting cast of ordinary and diverse Americans. But that's it as far as I recall.
The ultimate example of this, IMO, is over at DC. Due to being off-planet with out-of-sync aging from around his age of 10 to 18ish, as far as I can tell the only non-powered or non-Bat-family people Jon Kent even knows are his mother and grandparents (pretty sure he's not tried to interact with the still 10 year old girl he was friends with when he left).
Also, I waited on this to see if someone else would point it out or if I could come up with a No-Prize worthy explanation, but no one has and I'm stumped. The whole bit in FF about not having solved obtaining "giganticik dimensions" via technology...um, did everyone forget about Giant-Men, Stature, Goliaths, Atlas, etc. and Pym Particles?
Great column as always. I do have one question, though: Was the Marvel Super Heroes cartoon the reason Namor was given a feature in TALES TO ASTONISH -- maybe in case more material was needed for the show?
My own experience with these cartoons was that a lot of them were released to video and I remember renting them in the 1980s - I particularly remember watching Iron Man and Captain America cartoons with those great theme songs.
Put me down as someone who loved the Avengers Inc character covers. I was in already for the creative team (Al Ewing is a must buy writer, and Leonard Kirk is underrated. Love his work everywhere I’ve seen it) but I’d have picked up those comics to flip through and consider buying on cover alone.
(That might not be enough.,. But I’m not a previews reader, so I’m not going to put a book on a pull list on a cover).
Anyway, I’ll remain sad it’s over. Issue 5 felt a bit rushed but the other 4 were perfect.
Really loving the Fantastic Four these days. Issue #16 was outstanding.
The Alex Ross covers are an immediate draw for me. The guy is truly gifted. The cover for the upcoming issue #19 is incredible and, as intended, it’s got me wondering if the story will match that pulpy crime story shtick?
It really makes me curious how this FF creative team - Ryan North, Alex Ross, and your editors - work together to produce the concepts for all these covers? You’ve mentioned doing quick layouts or mock-ups before for cover artists, have you done any of that with Alex? Does Alex ever get an outline of the plot or a full script and get to choose what he wants to do? As the writer how much does Ryan have a say?
Loving the product either way, would love to know how you all work it out.
I find it interesting when you talk about heroes needing to be grounded by dating and being around other heroes. It made me think of Thor, and how much better I thought the series got when Jane Foster was first written out. Every subsequent creative team would always try to bring back Don Blake and Jane, and it never seemed to work for me. Of course, not being human and having a supporting cast that also wasn’t human made a difference - Thor is very much the exception. I always found Peter Parker to be far more interesting dating Gwen or MJ than Felicia, for example.
Comics, as the rumors go, are circling the drain and have six months before everyone’s bankrupt. These rumors have been going around for 80 years straight: they probably were around before Superman or Archie. What was the closest you came to believing this was actually going to happen, and the industry was going to collapse like the Bluesmobile?
With the coming of the new Night Thrasher series I've been going back and re-reading his 1994 ongoing and it's surprisingly good, if messy, with artists bopping in and out with regularity. At that time there was the larger, regular New Warriors series, plus the Night Thrasher ongoing, Nova reboot, and Justice mini-series. I have also heard rumors that there was a secondary New Warriors spin-off planned (New Warriors West Coast, anyone?). But shortly after, these projects ramped up, writer Fabian Nicieza left the Warriors, the solo books faded away and the spin-off never came to be. Do you have any recollection of what caused the implosion of what seemed to be a pretty significant project?
Were the 1966 Marvel Super Hero trading cards based on the show? I always thought they were, but I dug up my old set and see that among the characters in the cards are Spider-Man and Daredevil
That "Marvel Super Heroes" intro probably should have stayed lost. Wow.
As always, Tom, thanks for these. Your unflinching honesty in recalling your experiences with Deathlok are especially appreciated -- and, I think, helpful to anyone who's ever been young, stupid, and inexperienced in a creative job.
Speaking of old editorial experiences. Here's one I maybe ought to have asked you in an interview, but the topic never came up, so here it is. There has been an oft-repeated story (from John Byrne, Glen Greenberg, and others) that during the mid-90's, Steve Ditko had been in talks to make his dramatic, long-awaited return to Spider-Man for a project of some sort, only to drop the discussions after seeing Untold Tales of Spider-Man already in progress.
The story is eyebrow-raising on its face, if only because of Ditko's frequent and consistent refusals to work on his co-creation post-1966, even during periods when he had an active working relationship with Marvel. And even from the distance of time, I'm not sure how much you yourself are free to comment on it. But if I can ask your own recollections of the events, can you describe what happened here, and what you were actually aware of at the time?
What is the rarest commercially available single issue of a Marvel comic book from the time you've been working there? Note that I don't mean the most desirable or valuable one (and, for the purposes of this question, let's also disqualify variant covers, reprints, giveaways, withdrawn errors, etc.), just the one of which there are literally the fewest copies in circulation.
(I have a couple of theories about what it might be, but I figure the real answer will surprise me whatever it is!)
I don't buy a lot of comics these days, but I do try to stay up on the news in case I hear about anything that's worth purchasing. Consequently, I might be a little late to a new series that's getting good reviews, but I don't mind catching up if I know it's going to be a quality experience. I'm especially drawn to miniseries since I know I'll get a story with a beginning-middle-end by (usually) the same creators the entire time.
Avengers, Inc. seems like something I might have picked up, but by the time I a) knew it existed and b) heard that it was good, it had already been cancelled with issue #3 on the stands. That seems quick even by 2024 standards, so sales must have been terrible right out of the gate.
But here's my question: if someone who's been hooked into comics culture for decades can't hop on a quality new series in time, then how is it supposed to grow an audience? Does a series need a built-in audience before it's even published? And wouldn't it have been better to commission and solicit a project like Avengers, Inc. as a miniseries to begin with? If the entire story was going to be done in 10 issues, then the miniseries format seems perfect for it.
Thanks for your newsletter. I appreciate the insider perspective and historical research you provide.
I think the reason superheroes are so seldomly interacting with non-such these days is that, for example at Marvel, the only major characters to have secret identities are all in the Spider- family (Peter, Miles, Cindy). And they all have human supporting casts. And (checks current status) this is the even numbered year when Daredevil has one. : -) And we're in the middle of one of the occasional attempts to ground Captain America as interacting with a supporting cast of ordinary and diverse Americans. But that's it as far as I recall.
The ultimate example of this, IMO, is over at DC. Due to being off-planet with out-of-sync aging from around his age of 10 to 18ish, as far as I can tell the only non-powered or non-Bat-family people Jon Kent even knows are his mother and grandparents (pretty sure he's not tried to interact with the still 10 year old girl he was friends with when he left).
Also, I waited on this to see if someone else would point it out or if I could come up with a No-Prize worthy explanation, but no one has and I'm stumped. The whole bit in FF about not having solved obtaining "giganticik dimensions" via technology...um, did everyone forget about Giant-Men, Stature, Goliaths, Atlas, etc. and Pym Particles?
Great column as always. I do have one question, though: Was the Marvel Super Heroes cartoon the reason Namor was given a feature in TALES TO ASTONISH -- maybe in case more material was needed for the show?
My own experience with these cartoons was that a lot of them were released to video and I remember renting them in the 1980s - I particularly remember watching Iron Man and Captain America cartoons with those great theme songs.
Put me down as someone who loved the Avengers Inc character covers. I was in already for the creative team (Al Ewing is a must buy writer, and Leonard Kirk is underrated. Love his work everywhere I’ve seen it) but I’d have picked up those comics to flip through and consider buying on cover alone.
(That might not be enough.,. But I’m not a previews reader, so I’m not going to put a book on a pull list on a cover).
Anyway, I’ll remain sad it’s over. Issue 5 felt a bit rushed but the other 4 were perfect.
Tom
Really loving the Fantastic Four these days. Issue #16 was outstanding.
The Alex Ross covers are an immediate draw for me. The guy is truly gifted. The cover for the upcoming issue #19 is incredible and, as intended, it’s got me wondering if the story will match that pulpy crime story shtick?
It really makes me curious how this FF creative team - Ryan North, Alex Ross, and your editors - work together to produce the concepts for all these covers? You’ve mentioned doing quick layouts or mock-ups before for cover artists, have you done any of that with Alex? Does Alex ever get an outline of the plot or a full script and get to choose what he wants to do? As the writer how much does Ryan have a say?
Loving the product either way, would love to know how you all work it out.
Thanks
Andy
I find it interesting when you talk about heroes needing to be grounded by dating and being around other heroes. It made me think of Thor, and how much better I thought the series got when Jane Foster was first written out. Every subsequent creative team would always try to bring back Don Blake and Jane, and it never seemed to work for me. Of course, not being human and having a supporting cast that also wasn’t human made a difference - Thor is very much the exception. I always found Peter Parker to be far more interesting dating Gwen or MJ than Felicia, for example.
Comics, as the rumors go, are circling the drain and have six months before everyone’s bankrupt. These rumors have been going around for 80 years straight: they probably were around before Superman or Archie. What was the closest you came to believing this was actually going to happen, and the industry was going to collapse like the Bluesmobile?
With the coming of the new Night Thrasher series I've been going back and re-reading his 1994 ongoing and it's surprisingly good, if messy, with artists bopping in and out with regularity. At that time there was the larger, regular New Warriors series, plus the Night Thrasher ongoing, Nova reboot, and Justice mini-series. I have also heard rumors that there was a secondary New Warriors spin-off planned (New Warriors West Coast, anyone?). But shortly after, these projects ramped up, writer Fabian Nicieza left the Warriors, the solo books faded away and the spin-off never came to be. Do you have any recollection of what caused the implosion of what seemed to be a pretty significant project?